Schluter-KERDI-DS is required for continuous use steam rooms What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? Best to get the 7/8" OSB to match. Thanks Kevin. But its pretty strong, which is why it is commonly used on floors. We just read the article in Fine Homebuilding No. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. Repeat until you are sure the DITRA has adhered to the thinset. IOW, you have to be fast. I'll be sure to let everyone know if/when I find out the hard way! California Specification 01350 is referenced by various green building standards and rating systems. A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. OSB, though slightly different from plywood, it is still a wood product. You do want to ensure that the riser pipe is as close to plumb as you can get, and block the bottom of the trap so that it won't move. Used unmodified as called for between ditra and tile. Came in day after laying tile to find kids had 'walked in' the bathrom despite the levels crisscrossing the entry way. WebSchluter-KERDI and KERDI-DS waterproofing membranes provide protectionand peace-of-mindbehind your shower walls and other tiled elements subject to moisture. If working with a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the subfloor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. the modified cured differently (or was it the unmodified?) Have everything set to go BEFORE you mix it. Some of the acrylic based ones are pretty maintenance free, too. Well, im fearful but interested. Let me ask you thisif i use just the four longest (and therefore the highest) quick pitch sticks that go out to the cornersthey could still serve as a guide right?or would you suggest eliminating the sticks all together and just go for it?.How long will this dry pack stay workable? For complete installation guidelines and warranty criteria for KERDI in showers, steam showers, and bathtub surrounds or KERDI-DS in steam rooms , please download the Schluter- Systems Shower System Installation Handbook and view the installation videos available below. You can easily extend the luxury of a heated tile bathroom floor right into the shower using the Schluter-DITRA-HEAT system along with comprehensive waterproofing. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. How long do I have to wait before I can install tile on the Schluter-KERDI membrane? I understand that to be a requirement for the foam trays. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 2. That means it will expand and shrink when exposed to water or moisture. Acrylic is the best system to use for shower walls because it is the safest, least high maintenance, and easy to install, meaning your shower could be done in as little as one day. It's important to note that latex-modified thinset can still be used between the membrane and the subfloor because it is not impervious. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Please note that you need 48 hours for full cure on the Kerabond. What material is used behind shower walls? Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. KERDI-BOARD can be installed both vertically and horizontally using the screws and washers in our hardware assortment. This doesnt have to be a cause for concern. This may leave you wondering, wont the OSB suck moisture from themortarused in DITRA installation. I will explain why you should use the V-notched trowel. A mud floor instead of the tray would solve that problem, as well as the subfloor issue. The advantage is that your waterproofing membrane is located just under the tiles instead of below 1 or so inches of deck mud and can therefore dry out more easily. No matter how firm the subfloor; the plywood will expand and contract at a different rate as the tile, causing cracks to develop in the grout lines or tiles over time. Send us an email: . Building mud screeds along that line is fairly simple, just pile a row of mud against the wall so it covers the line by about an inch, then using a straight board, press the mud down until you can just see the line again. or OSB Joists, I-joists, or trusses Ceramic or porcelain tile Unmodified thin-set mortar DITRA-HEAT or DITRA-HEAT-TB uncoupling membrane and heating cables Latex p.c. If you must tape Schluter-KERDI over Solid Backing for Walls, Scott McGillivray on Waterproofing Principles using Schluter-Systems, How to Waterproof Connections to Fixed Building Elements. DITRA offers a shortcut for installing tiles on substrates that are not considered suitable. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. You don't want a ridge there. Because of the benefits mentioned above, DITRA is perfect for surfaces about to be tiled over. Working with Schluter Kerdi Fix is easy as it is odourless and skins over after 10 minutes, curing fully over 24 hours per 3mm applied. Ideally I would like a fold down slatted wood seat mounted on the wall. OSB boards are good at sucking in moisture. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Waterproofing corners Schluter-KERDI-KERECK. (Explained), Can You Use RedGard Over Plywood? In Which Areas Should DITRA Be Installed Over OSB? The time to dampen the Hardi is before you put thinset and tile on top. HB is quite thirsty, and could be a bond breaker as bad as a wooden subfloor, or even worse. Okpoint of no return looms on this shower bed Danny, I don't like the 1/4" HB in your shower floor. KERDI is ideal for use in tiled showers, bathtub surrounds, residential steam showers, and other tile applications in wet areas. Copyright 2022 Zonda Media, a Delaware Corporation. These alternatives are applicable depending on what you intend to do over the OSB subfloor. You can use one to work the DITRA into the thinset. So what does all this mean? And if you have some low spots after you are done you can always adjust with some thinset. Thanks again Robert. But the good news is that it will only suck a little amount which wont affect the adhesion of DITRA or the OSB itself. Its relatively thin. Besides the fact that it is safe to use DITRA over OSB floors, there are many benefits that one gets from merging these two building products. 173 and followed their instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to lay Ditra over it. Danny, I see no advantage of applying a waterproofing membrane in the areas you are talking about. Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. However, Im using Kerdi membrane instead of Showerseal coating. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. There is no reason to use both products although it can be easier to use the RedGuard in corners and niches without the build up you can get with kerdi. Cover the joints with KERDI-FLEX. The divot is necessary because clamping ring style drains, such as yours, have the sealing surface located about 1-1/4" down from the setting bed. Different options and thicknesses of DITRA membrane are available to best suit the needs of your project. OSB, known as Oriented Strand Board, is made of several layers of wood strands bonded using adhesives. As for the seams, they can be sealed with Kerdi Band. Its important to note that when working with a concrete subfloor, a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness must be used to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. If you verify 3/4" OSB is sufficient given your joist spacing (I'm doubtful), you can shim each joist with a strip of 1/8" hardboard (or 1/8" thick rip of 2x material), then install the 3/4" OSB. I need to get rid of the old trap and cap off then tie in a new trap. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. Can I install Kerdi membrane over Hardibacker? Yes, I'm moving the drain to the center. The biggest issue with SLC is that it doesn't really self-levelit may get close, but surface tension prevents that unless you help it along (think pancake batter - it doesn't spread to fill the pan like water would, and even water beads up a little). Quick update to everyone that has been of help to me. You can do it either way. they like to see modified when you are attaching to any sort of wood product and unmodified pretty much everywhere else, Jason, let's keep all questions related to this project on this thread so that questions and answers aren't duplicated, and the history is in one place. How do you prepare OSB subfloor for tile? Sure, grey might be "OK," but why chance it for less than 20 bucks? Contact us: 888-472-4588 and since the plastic did absorb any moisture . it did cure as quick and the "excess" moisture could screw up the grout. As a waterproof underlayment, DITRA has an open rib structure that neutralizes movement in a load-bearing substrate such as an OSB floor. KERDI-DRAIN features an integrated bonding flange to which the KERDI waterproofing membrane is adhered and forms a waterproof connection at the top of the tile assembly. How are you going to handle the butt joints perpendicular to the joists of your new and old OSB? vBulletin v3.7.4, Copyright 2000-2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. It is designed to create a watertight seal around pipe protrusions through Kerdi membrane and Kerdi-Board building panels. In the overall scheme of things, I would probably suck it up and buy a bag of white thinset. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Find some existing tutorials and project documentation videos to learn how-to get the best out of our products - for more fun in your life, start now! Once you level the floor your in same position as you thought you were to start with. There is never 'the answer' but 'an answer'. Do I need to start over or can I simply repair the hole? say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." IMPORTANT: Stud spacing exceeding 16" requires the placement of additional studs. Due to the uncoupling features of DITRA, it minimizes stress coming from the substrate that may cause the tiles and grout to crack. Profile that forms a splashguard in curbless showers. Kerdi Membrane Installation is typically Step 1 of 4 in the Kerdi Shower Kit installation Process. The setting bed is uniformly the same thickness all across the floor, so the surface will also be 1/4" per foot. Once you get your pics to about 600 pixels high by 400 wide, they'll upload in a snap. Tile has been successfully installed for thousands of years by incorporating an uncoupling layer, or forgiving shear interface, within the tile assembly. All shower trays feature integrated KERDI waterproofing and are designed specifically to integrate with the KERDI-DRAIN. Danny, download Irfanview (http://www.irfanview.com/), a free image viewer/editor. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. On the surface, OSB may look fragile. Support answered that they recommend modified. The use of really cold water might give you an extra minute or two. Mix a bit more than you think you need and get after it. Besides Schluters recommendation, several experts have used DITRA as an uncoupling membrane for tile installation over OSB. 3. For tile installations using the thin-bed method, apply Schluter-SET, Schluter-ALL-SET, Schluter-FAST-SET, or unmodified thin-set mortar directly to the exposed KERDI surface and install the tiles, ensuring full coverage. Good idea to dampen the OSB before you apply the leveler. Prior to setting tile, wait 24 hours to allow for final set of the mortar before testing to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections. Im installing Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my shower. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Cut a section of Kerdi off the roll and dry fit it on the hardie. If so, you haven't done anything wrong. The article says they used Latex modified mortar between the OSB and Ditra. "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Wait 24 hours after the membrane (i.e., Schluter-KERDI-BAND and Schluter-KERDI) installation is complete to allow for the final set of the mortar and to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections before water testing. Well damn. Yes! That will eliminate/slow down theloss of moisture from the mortar. You only need a pair of scissors to cut the DITRA uncoupling membrane. So if you pre-treated the backs you just ruined the corner. Thanks Kevin. 3 Can I use unmodified thinset on plywood? Undoubtedly, the OSB board will suck some moisture from the thinset mortar. Its essential to use the recommended products to avoid disasters. It takes a little longer than the traditional mud shower bed and water-proofing methods, but it is worth it. Is there a product you would recommend? Please refer to the Schluter-Shower System Installation Handbook How long do I have to wait before I can install tile on the Schluter-KERDI membrane? Tiles moved.Went to try and pry out now unlevel tiles and 'voila', they just lifted right out. KERDI has been evaluated according to the Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions from Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers, Version 1.1 for California Specification 01350 and found to comply with the VOC requirements. How do I know if the thin-set mortar is modified or unmodified? WebI asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, which is only 1/8-in thick. 5 When to use Kerdi band after mortar installation? Schluter recommends different sizes. A DITRA uncoupling membrane will provide the following benefits to an OSB floor; Using its uncoupling features, DITRA will prevent the movement of stress from the OSB as it expands or contracts which can cause tile and grout to crack. As far as bonding goes, no sweat. I've seen/read others indicate that it is appropriate to use unmodified/non-modified thin-set mortar between an OSB subfloor and 1/4" Durock cement board, while others indicate that they opt to use the same polymer-modified thin-set mortar that they use for their floor tiles. a buddy said J Bridges is now saying he uses modified on top and underneath too. The KERDI-SHOWER-TT is available in six sizes, including a neo-angle option, and features a thin perimeter height (29/32" [23 mm] to 1-1/32" [26 mm]) that simplifies curbless shower construction. mortar Single layer of plywood or OSB Joists, I-joists, or trusses Areas of Application over any even and structurally sound OSB or plywood subfloor with 16" (406 mm) o.c. I need to run to lowes today anyways. would tiles start falling off the wall !!) How soon can I tile after installing KERDI? Once its flat, please turn to the V-notched side and trowel it so that you see grooves on the surface. Wait 24 hours after the membrane (i.e., Schluter-KERDI-BAND and Schluter-KERDI) installation is complete to allow for the final set of the mortar and to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections before water testing. The nominal 5/16 (8mm) thickness minimizes tile assembly thickness. Kerdi Board is another choice with a decently long history and loyal customer base. The KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). ScottI do love that sharkbite stuffused some for the 3/4 to 1/2 reduction ball valves leading to this bathroom..its hard to trust but it aint leaked a dropa little too expensive though.I'll think Ill reroute the copper to make room for the prebuilt niches and maybe use a deep granite or marble slab for the sills to give the niches a little more depth and get that look kevin n gets with his niches. KERDI-BOARD, a multifunctional waterproof building panel, gives you more control over your tile installation project by providing you with the means to simply and easily create ideal substrates for tile. Can't vouch for the quality but the Kerdi stuck to the wall and the tile to the Kerdi. How Do I Get Rid Of Green Mold In My Lawn? Go with a masonry bench or look into the better bench or nobel bench. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 4. Why Does He Look At Me When Im Not Looking? Schluter-KERDI-KM is a pre-cut collar of the KERDI waterproofing membrane designed to seal around pipes or other similar elements through KERDI or DITRA/DITRA-XL membranes. Using the flat side of the trowel, work the thinset on the OSB floor. Using KERDI-BOARD to build walls over stud framing in wet areas is an efficient alternative to using gypsum board. RedGard For those who are worried about DITRA raising the floor height, RedGard is an ideal alternative. Specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations, DITRA provides effective uncoupling protection, preventing cracked tiles and grout. WebDitra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. With a tray, it has to be perfectly flat and level. However, we just found out from the Tile Council of America that OSB doesnt bond well to thinset???? For good new rock music, click on: http://www.wolfmother.com. Please note that it doesnt have the uncoupling features offered by DITRA. Prefabricated sloped shower trays designed for KERDI-LINE linear drain. I'm of the opinion now that I'll use what's best for the stick with the subfloor. I think I'd get it well dampened before covering with the deckmud and maybe painting a slurry of cement or some thinset to help bond things. Wont DITRA Raise the Height of the OSB Floor? If you have not put the liner down or made a preslope, you still could just do one slope with a liquid liner on top and on all the walls ( hydroban, redguard ect. ) Looks like it should work. Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-wovenpolypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. It means "Greenboard" can still be used in bathrooms (and other areas), it just cannot be used as a backer for tile in a shower or tub surround. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable sheet-applied waterproofing membrane and vapor-retarder designed for the direct application of tile. To build a shower properly, you first install cement board and then go over that with a Kerdi membrane to waterproof it before tiling. WebDitra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. Not good. Contact us: 888-472-4588 10 Membrane 11 Heating Cables 16 Thin-set Facts 16 Testing & Certifications KERDI-BAND using unmodified thin-set over any even and structurally sound OSB or plywood subfloor with 19.2" (488 mm) o.c. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. I'm good front to back (32" depth). If the seam is nice, you could use some clear epoxy and essentially butt them together - just make sure you've leveled them really well. :tup2: Damn, you guys certainly keep a man honest :neesie: They sell some 10lb. I can confidently A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. Even though OSB3 can be used in humid areas. - M.K. Tiles were 12x12.Let's not confuse the issue with facts! 6. Work your way aound the shower, placing and packing mud as you go. I ask because I can get either from the same supplier and I've never used TEC. Use Thinset With a Higher Latex Content Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. ..your opinion on shimming up the shorter pre pitch sticks?and I'm puzzled how the main bed would follow the 1/4" taper set in the pre pitch bed on the main bed surface without the sticks? Once the KERDI membrane, including seams, corners and protrusions have been completely bonded and, therefore, waterproofed, the assembly is ready to be tiled. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. The time between liquid and starting to set can be quite abrupt. Invictus, by Henley. Mark the coverage of the Kerdi on the hardieboard. Im thinking the epoxy route is the way to go. Ditra can be installed over a variety of subfloors including concrete, plywood, OSB and radiant heated floors. I never had done drypack before and it was pretty simple to do. Further, DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Ceramic tiling can be installed onto 23/32 OSB subflooring panels where the panels are supported by 16 o.c. over expansion joints or construction joints. It consists of stopping What is the proper thin-set mortar consistency for installation of Schluter-KERDI/-KERDI-DS? This means: A minimum of 5/8 nominal plywood or OSB thickness installed over joists on 16 centers. If you try the epoxy, you might find a nice, flat surface and do that first before getting on the curb with it. If you can tile a shower you can do a mud bed. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Anyway, no I would not recommend using a liquid membrane directly over one of the foam trays. Henry makes one called liquid backerboard that is designed to get to a feather edge over OSB or ply (I'm sure on ply, double-check over OSB). I will look into it. Do I need to tape the joints between panels before installing the KERDI?
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